There is no substitute for SAARC: Ambassador Haider

August 8, Kathmandu: Nepal and Pakistan had established diplomatic relations on March 29, 1960. The twenty-one years of bilateral relations have been marked by mutual admiration and similar views on regional and international issues. Kaushal Ghimire talked to Pakistani Ambassador to Nepal Syed Haider Shah regarding the relationship between the two countries, SAARC, and the crisis brewing in Afghanistan.    

Nepal and Pakistan have been enjoying a cordial relationship. Nepal and Pakistan share similar problems and concerns, be it poverty, corruption, or difficult topography. Both the countries are also trying hard to achieve prosperity for their people. How can we overcome this problem by sharing each other’s experiences?  

The problems we face are common. And for that matter, a number of countries in other parts of the world also share these problems. As Pakistan and Nepal are bound together in this extended neighbourhood, there is more relevance and opportunity for sharing experiences. At the outset, there are a few basic requisites which any country would require such as, for instance, a rule of law, representative government, strong institutions, and both Pakistan and Nepal are making efforts towards that goal with varying levels of success, and that is an ongoing process. And we should continue to do that. I think there are multiple opportunities for the two countries to come together and to see how we are tackling the problems that we are facing both at our own ends like poverty and climate change. We need to incorporate experiences and lessons learned in our strategies to deal with the common problems. I think that is one of the prerequisites for learning and for improving and avoiding mistakes in future. There is also that opportunity for different institutions, in the two countries to come together to share their experiences, their representatives of people to come and sit together and to share what their take is on different issues like how we can modulate our responses, how we can benefit from the experiences of one another. So there are ample opportunities for the two countries and there is basic goodwill between the two countries.  So I think there are many ways to benefit by coming together to learn from our common problems and fashioning strategies, which would help us in overcoming those challenges.

One issue which has been impeding better trade relations is the lack of direct connectivity.

Pakistan and Nepal are close and friendly neighbours. It has been helping Nepal in areas such as medical and engineering education. But except that, mutual cooperation and trade relations between the two countries remain limited. How can both countries enhance mutual help and assistance in days to come?

I don’t think we need to recreate the will to work together. There are mechanisms in place to deal with these issues, for instance, the Joint Economic Commission, the Joint Business Council, and then there are also platforms for political consultations which can discuss those particular issues that you are mentioning. Just as cooperation in the education field, I think there is also scope for cooperation and for enhancing bilateral trade and commerce.

One issue which has been impeding that kind of closeness in trade relations is the lack of direct connectivity. That is a big issue, as it has financial implications in terms of the movement of goods and from one country to another. We are trying to resolve this problem. And we hope that with that resolved there would be other possibilities. Fortunately, both Pakistan and Nepal are part of the Belt and Road Initiative (BRI). And that also opens up other possibilities for us to cooperate and to enhance connectivity between our two countries. So there are different possibilities. I’ve been in touch with the Nepal Chamber of Commerce. And we hoped that there would be avenues for us to explore possibilities of cooperation between the two countries in terms of trade and commerce. There have been in the past exhibitions in Nepal by Pakistani businessmen. I still meet people and they recall fondly those exhibitions and the products which are popular in Nepal, and I think that if similar exhibitions are continued in Nepal, and also for Nepalese products in Pakistan, that could further give a kind of boost to the bilateral trade between the two countries, the chambers of commerce of the two countries can play a leading role in that and we can be a facilitator in that as the Government of Pakistan’s arm. And the businessmen of the two countries can seek out ventures which can be profitable to both sides. So there are possibilities of forging a relationship between the commercial entities of two countries and translating the traditional warmth and receptivity to products of the two countries, that can be a big help. So I would say that there are areas including in terms of bilateral trade that can benefit from closer cooperation in future and we hope that such opportunities open up. For example, the China Pakistan Economic Corridor opens up new possibilities of connectivity in Pakistan, and by extension for other countries in the region, including Nepal. So you get another kind of gateway to Central Asia. The possibilities are immense. And we need to harness those possibilities, we need to attend the policymakers on both sides and businessmen and the people have to have a bit of a strategic vision to seize this historic opportunity to see how we can ride this wave and benefit, and do something which would benefit the two countries.

There is no other substitute for SAARC.

Nepal and Pakistan are both South Asian countries. And we have a regional organization i.e. SAARC to solve regional problems and enhance regional cooperation, but SAARC has fallen short on its promises due to a lack of regular summits and conventions. How can we make SAARC more effective?

SAARC is an embodiment of the wishes of the people of this region, the leaders of South Asian countries came together and decided to form this body late in the 1980s. And since then, this organization has played a crucial role in many areas. But unfortunately, in the last few years, SAARC has not been able to play the role which was intended for it. It is unfortunate because South Asia remains one of the least connected regions in the world. And I think there is a possibility if this organization is allowed to play a more proactive role. It can overcome many of the challenges that we face. It can provide for regional connectivity, it can provide for socio-economic projects that initial founders of the organization intended. And it can in the nutshell, contribute to the prosperity of the people of this region. So, the functioning of SAARC is closely tied up with the future of the people of this region and it is unfortunate that due to political reasons the process has been halted, we are very appreciative of the principal position taken by the leadership of Nepal for the revival and the activation of SAARC. As the host country of the SAARC Secretariat, I think Nepal has done an exemplary job in terms of safeguarding and upholding the principles of SAARC and we hope that the way forward is that we continue to make other members of SAARC aware of the need to revive and activate this organization, which would, in turn, enable it to play the role that we all aspired to play, and we hope that we can rise above our the short term political differences and see the promise of this organization and let it play the role that it is destined to play, I think we have lost a lot of time. Again, I would like to stress here that this is an entity that is ideally suited for taking forward the process of regional cooperation there is no other substitute for SAARC as such. So we have to let this organization play its role by shunning our short differences to allow this process to move forward. Pakistan would always safeguard and uphold the principles of SAARC which are sacrosanct for us in terms of furthering and deepening the prosperity of the region of the people of this region.

So now to a topic that we South Asians love cricket. Pakistan is creating a powerhouse in South Asia and Nepal is also very keen on cricket, but it has been struggling to get ODI and test ranking. With Pakistani Prime Minister Imran Khan himself being a cricketer and not just a cricketer, but a World Cup-winning captain, how can Pakistan help Nepal to improve its cricket?

We have been in touch with the Nepalese authorities on exploring how we can cooperate between the two countries in terms of sports and particularly cricket. I think there is potential for cooperation. Pakistan has been helping Nepali cricketers in the past. We hope that we can have further the institutional linkages between the cricket authorities in the two countries. I think there are many possibilities, we are fully aware of and appreciate the love and support that we have received from Nepalese fans. I think it is gratifying for our cricket stars also to realize that they have such a huge fan following in Nepal. I think we need to translate that warmth into something more tangible. I think we are exploring possibilities of how the experience and expertise that we have in cricket can be imparted to our colleagues here in Nepal. It could be by training coaches and other cooperatives endeavours where we can allow the Nepalese youth to learn tricks of the trade and I hope that that would go a long way in Nepal’s quest for gaining and enhancing their standing in international cricket.

Now an international perspective, since the US Army started pulling its troops out of Afghanistan, we have been hearing about the Taliban taking swathes of territories in Afghanistan under its control. Afghanistan going back into the Taliban’s hands will have strong repercussions not only in Afghanistan but also on the peace and security of the region. How do you see it? What is Pakistan doing to ensure peace and stability in Afghanistan and the whole region?

Afghanistan, as you rightly pointed out, is the focus in terms of the security situation in the region, it has implications for the peace and stability of the entire region. And the events inside of Afghanistan, for the last four and a half decades, have demonstrated very clearly that what goes on inside of Afghanistan has an impact on the entire region, and mostly in Pakistan. I would add here that the country which has been impacted the most by instability in Afghanistan, apart from Afghanistan, is Pakistan. We have more than 3 million Afghanistan refugees in Pakistan. And if God forbid, there is instability again in future, the brunt of the exodus of refugees would be borne by Pakistan. So we are under no illusion as to the cost of instability and lack of peace in Afghanistan. We are very clear that we need to have a stable united and peaceful Afghanistan. One which is at peace with itself and with its neighbours.

 And Pakistan’s position has always been that there is no military solution to this problem. We have seen attempts over the last more than four decades, and they have come to a nought in terms of militarily solving the problem. And we do not expect that there could be any military solution in future. So this makes it very clear that there is no military solution, we have to have a political settlement in Afghanistan, and how we do it, the best course for that would be a political solution through a process that is owned and led by Afghans. That is the way to lasting peace and stability in Afghanistan. And what can we do to support that? I think it is very important that after decades of instability and generations lost in the civil war and conflict in Afghanistan, that we as members of the international community, we have to help reconstruct the country (Afghanistan), we have to help rebuild institutions, and we have to create conditions for the safe, dignified and sustainable return of refugees who are scattered across the world, especially in Pakistan. And that can only be done with the support of the international community, it cannot be done by one single country. So hope that the people in Afghanistan would also realize the opportunity that they have been provided. The opportunity to forge peace that can rid the country of the conflict conditions it has been suffering from for so many decades. So, we hope that the situation is pregnant with hope. Also, it is not kind of a doomsday scenario that there is a light at the end of the tunnel that and we hope that our Afghan brothers and sisters would seize this opportunity and build on on the foundations and try to create peace in their country.

If peace returns, Afghans are only going to benefit from it. It is a gateway to Central Asia. There are immense opportunities for the people for reconstruction, development, and future prosperity. So all these things are interlinked. They are contingent on one another. We have to have all the building pieces in the right place. And we hope that this opportunity that has been provided by the peace process with Pakistan-supported talks between the Taliban and the US would yield great results. We also hope that with the withdrawal of foreign forces from Afghanistan, the momentum for peace would be not lost and that the leadership would demonstrate farsightedness. vision, and statesmanship to seize this historic opportunity and lead their country out of conflict and towards peace and prosperity.

 But with the Taliban being in the offensive, can you envisage a scenario where it will come in talking terms with the Afghan civilian government? Because all we are looking at is the Taliban gunning down the checkpoints and taking over towns.

My starting point was that there is no military solution. So it applies in equal measure to everyone whether it is a foreign force in Afghanistan or the Taliban. There is no military solution. You don’t need bigger guns and more ammunition and more firepower to solve this problem. When we say there is no military solution, it means that the military solution does not work. It is not a question of gaining territory, it is not a question of how much of the country you control. The crucial question is how much stability and peace does that control bring to the country? And how sustainable is that? We have seen time and again, that foreign control or military control over territories has not translated into peace. We are under no illusion and that’s why we saying loud and clear to everyone that there is no military solution, we have to come sit, we have to make trade-offs, we have to meet midway, we have to find a common ground. The political settlement owned, crafted, and led by the Afghans are impertinent to peace and stability in Afghanistan. It cannot be any other way. We cannot consider that there are other possibilities that they can find peace with greater speed and swiftness and greater military success. If it hasn’t worked for these many years, it is not likely to work again. So we are very clear that the only solution for peace and stability is through a political settlement.